Specifically, with categorization of spirituality into types, and manipulation of historical documents to prevent conflict? What about the exclusivity clause? If you are someone who follows a religion, are you comfortable with how this was treated?
Susan James: You make good points here Eden. I guess I can equate the concept of different religions like this: there are only 7 notes and 5 half notes and yet every song ever written is made of of those notes. But not everybody likes or is moved by every genre of music. Some like classical, some like rap,, some like heavy metal - but it’s all music, and different kinds of music speaks to/ appeals to different people’s souls. I also have never belonged to a church, but throughout my life I have been seeking a kind of spirituality which can encompass all organized faiths, and/but with both unity and individuality being honoured as fundamental principals. But you’re right about the exclusivity issue - if any religion/doctrine proposes ‘believe this or you are not one of us’ it denotes a human (or committee of humans) making rules which exclude other members of the human family; that is in direct opposition to my concept of God therefore can I in fact accept all dogma and doctrine different from mine? I know that Einstein was right - Problems cannot be solved using the same consciousness that created them. I don’t think I answered your question at all Eden - just made things murkier 🙂. Maybe someone else can address it more succinctly ...
Susan James this is great. I know there are no answers to these questions I’m posing but I am finding all of these intelligent, thoughtful responses so helpful. I think we’re all in such a mixed up state with what’s been happening on our planet and within our own worlds. It’s a good time to have this discussion
Susan Levoy: With all the divisiveness in the world all religions should embrace the common threads of their religions rather than think their religion is the one and only. Having been brought up a Catholic which I no longer follow I feel spirituality is more important than being a member of a specific group.”What if’s”are always intriguing and important to explore.
Susan Levoy totally agree, so bizarre to have this discussion after what we’ve witnessed this week on the news. We even saw Jesus signs among the rioters. Sad and terrifying when people take something deep and meaningful to so many and turn it into a blood cry
This post by Pea Doubleu from the Facebook Discussion:
As one whose life is sustained by organized religion (although if you've seen my office lately you might choose a word other than organized...) I'll jump in here. Exclusivity claims are all about protecting turf, and have nothing to do with a yearning for truth/life/meaning beyond the senses. Doctrine (my only diagnosed allergy) is the death of the Divine. Certainty, not doubt, is the opposite of faith. The harm inflicted on countless human beings, other creatures and on the planet by those who have insisted and continue to insist on exclusive access to Heaven/G*d/Spirit/The Divine is devastating and atrocious. Formulas purporting to give exclusive access to an eternal realm make a mockery of the glory, the wonder and mystery of Life itself. I feel both humbled and fortunate to have a sense of a Spirit of Life that permeates all Creation, including me and you and the rocks and trees and waters and literally, every thing. And I also feel fortunate that there are streams of tradition in all the world's 'exclusive' religions which recognize and honour the paths others follow toward a more compassionate, generous, attentive and intentional life together. For those who don't know, I (bob) am a pastor in a little baptist church in Toronto. I have long defined myself as a 'hopeful agnostic.' Hopeful, because that draws me along paths of inquiry and experience toward soulful yearnings, and agnostic, because there is very little that I know, especially about G*d, with any certainty.
Pea Doubleu this is awesome, I was so hoping to get our resident Pastor in this group to weigh in. Although I know you are far from a ‘typical Baptist minister’, you have great insights and wisdom in this area. So glad to hear your views on “exclusivity”
Doug Watt: Pea Doubleu very well communicated. While we (as brothers) have travelled different paths, I think we share a remarkably similar view of organized religions. Unfortunately, too many of these “organized” religions, or at least Western religions, seem to aim to restrict and control, rather than expand and free for growth. I recognize that there are many people that feel they do and can grow, but we only have to look to the US to see an entire religious movement that has supported a morally bankrupt and corrupt president simply because he was willing to support an anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage agenda. I think the concept of spirituality vs religion is a far more attractive path, one that leads to inquiry and exploration, which in part I think is the path that Vision Speak (the book and the “religion”) takes us down. Looking forward to further discussion!
Susan James: You make good points here Eden. I guess I can equate the concept of different religions like this: there are only 7 notes and 5 half notes and yet every song ever written is made of of those notes. But not everybody likes or is moved by every genre of music. Some like classical, some like rap,, some like heavy metal - but it’s all music, and different kinds of music speaks to/ appeals to different people’s souls. I also have never belonged to a church, but throughout my life I have been seeking a kind of spirituality which can encompass all organized faiths, and/but with both unity and individuality being honoured as fundamental principals. But you’re right about the exclusivity issue - if any religion/doctrine proposes ‘believe this or you are not one of us’ it denotes a human (or committee of humans) making rules which exclude other members of the human family; that is in direct opposition to my concept of God therefore can I in fact accept all dogma and doctrine different from mine? I know that Einstein was right - Problems cannot be solved using the same consciousness that created them. I don’t think I answered your question at all Eden - just made things murkier 🙂. Maybe someone else can address it more succinctly ...
Susan Levoy: With all the divisiveness in the world all religions should embrace the common threads of their religions rather than think their religion is the one and only. Having been brought up a Catholic which I no longer follow I feel spirituality is more important than being a member of a specific group.”What if’s”are always intriguing and important to explore.
This post by Pea Doubleu from the Facebook Discussion:
As one whose life is sustained by organized religion (although if you've seen my office lately you might choose a word other than organized...) I'll jump in here. Exclusivity claims are all about protecting turf, and have nothing to do with a yearning for truth/life/meaning beyond the senses. Doctrine (my only diagnosed allergy) is the death of the Divine. Certainty, not doubt, is the opposite of faith. The harm inflicted on countless human beings, other creatures and on the planet by those who have insisted and continue to insist on exclusive access to Heaven/G*d/Spirit/The Divine is devastating and atrocious. Formulas purporting to give exclusive access to an eternal realm make a mockery of the glory, the wonder and mystery of Life itself. I feel both humbled and fortunate to have a sense of a Spirit of Life that permeates all Creation, including me and you and the rocks and trees and waters and literally, every thing. And I also feel fortunate that there are streams of tradition in all the world's 'exclusive' religions which recognize and honour the paths others follow toward a more compassionate, generous, attentive and intentional life together. For those who don't know, I (bob) am a pastor in a little baptist church in Toronto. I have long defined myself as a 'hopeful agnostic.' Hopeful, because that draws me along paths of inquiry and experience toward soulful yearnings, and agnostic, because there is very little that I know, especially about G*d, with any certainty.